Informed Comment is on my Links. Every morning I take a deep breath and press the blue line. Day after day the horrors of Iraq roll on and over; Juan Cole reports and explains, plainly, clearly, no sensationalism no (thank goodness) pictures.
But I have to force myself to look. Our government helped to do this, at least I can read each day's results.
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'I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free'
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10 comments:
I don't know why you get so enraged about Iraq HG .We could, I suppose , have told the US we did not value their protection and they could sod off . Is that what you would have advised? Otherwise our casualties have not been heavy, less say , than the Falklands . Until the Beauty Queens of the world have their wish and peace joins mankind it is likely that armies are going to have some causalities and if we cannot accept them we might just as well not have an army , again that strikes me as bold . Iraqi casualties are not our doing and the position was as bad before. I could probably live with a right wing nihilist foreign policy myself but the received wisdom is that we are not in a position to abandon an international position in the way France is . The idea that we are now more of a magnet to terrorist is highly debatable and not demonstrable by those that have actually taken part. In any case I do not believe these people respect weakness , even if they do it is a rather invertebrate argument.
I notice the Lib Dems despite being the only anti war Parry are doing unprecedentedly badly I am wonder if behind the student’s wish for their Vietnam the country has quietly concluded they still can’t be trusted on defence. I never imagined they were myself ( or energy or the constitution ) It looks increasingly likely that Labour are going to offer some sort of PR which makes it essential they are not in a position to do so.
It is shame, N, I'm not enraged. This attack and occupation of another country took place on my watch; yes, there are 60 million other people in the United Kingdom and for all of those who are sentient adults, it was their watch too. But for me it remains 100% my watch.
Hundreds of thousand of people, civilians and soldiers, have been killed; the slaughter is daily, and as it progresses it opens routes to more killing. Hundreds of thousands of others are refugees.
I agree that probably no terrorist attack in this country is linked to our attack upon Iraq.
We owed much more to the United States than acquiesence and ready involvement; we owed determined opposition to the projects of a government and the aggression of its policies that horrified just as big a proportion of its citizens as it did ours.
There is a difference, too, between our longterm and determined loyalty to our allies, and our sustaining an illegal attack on another country by a particular administration.
It shares no similarities with Vietnam; it was not a containment of China and a perceived as hostile ideology; it was not an escalation proceeding blindly from small-scale regime support to major troop involvement;there was no dominant, even if mistaken, domino theory of geo political threat.
This is primitive accumulation, the control, and strategic positioning and installations to maintain control, of a primary resource.
The millions of us who opposed the invasion of Iraq came from every point on the Party spectrum, and from every part of the country, indeed world. I can give my reason: it was wrong. Others will know theirs.
grfobonewmania: how does invading Iraq protect us? Does it even protect "our" oil?
We owed much more to the United States than acquiescence and ready involvement; we owed determined opposition to the projects of a government and the aggression of its policies that horrified just as big a proportion of its citizens as it did ours.
HG that simply isn’t true, there was no significant opposition to the war in the US , the opposition here was nebulous and has grown in retrospect. I certainly supported it as did the Conservative Party with or without the presence of WMD`s ( a red herring the anti war BBC cynically misrepresented as I have recently reading Robin Aitken`s book ) and had the UK not supported the US they would have reacted as I read Irwin Stelzer describing today over the dismissal by a European anti US group of Paul Wolfowitz on grounds that are trivial beyond belief in the context of his role. Asian countries do not share Europe’s loathing of the US( ourselves excepted). Trade restrictions are to be expected, a withdrawal from involvement from the disgraceful UN.( Economic Sustainability is chaired by Zimbawe !!!)
Europe spends little on defence sitting under America’s wing and the US is bound to back off from its role as world policeman without which h it is quite clear the world would be an infinitely more dangerous place. The whole discussion of the UN approval was a joke and the more worrying fact is that NATO which had reality outside the Liberal media has become a one way business for the US.
. We originally joined the Common Market with the opposition of France with the insistence that we drop both our Commonwealth and US relationships . To a large extent the former has been achieved the latter has not . In our future role which I would like to see distant from the EU we will be close to the Asian and US Free trade economies and to some extent I side with them right or wrong in that the only country in a position to have to make real decisions and not weimarish complaints. Not every decision will turn out as well as one had hoped and Iraq is certainly in that category Inaction and isolationism is not an option
Tony Blair possibly sold us a little cheap but he was right in my view to look to the security of this country and the wider security of the world. He was also laudable in hoping , as I did , that , as the Australians put it “ The Brown feller could handle democracy”. The alternative view is to destabilise not only the world but our main strut of defence, to actively support perhaps the nastiest fascist regime of the 20th century and betray the many Iraqis that campaigned and longed for help. This is as regime who have killed a member of every family in the country. I look with astonishment as the .Liberal left belatedly discover realpolitik. It could hardly have been at a worse time. Much the same coalition of forces that are against he war belonged to CND who by encouraging Russia to believe the West had no will to defend itself so nearly brought about catastrophe. The motives of appeasers are always mysterious to me.
So I do not in short agree with you about Iraq HG and I `m afraid my dimly imagined plans to run away with you to Italy like the Brownings will have to be put on hold . Indefinately !!
As for this Oil theory the oil flows with or without the war and always has done the system contains slack going back to the OPEC crisis . There is an interesting article in the new magazine Prospect about this I might look it up . It was not Oil that was behind this it was 9.11 and the spread of theocratic fascism helped at every turn by misguided Liberal appeasement. No wonder I`m a Dinner Jacket feels he can do what he likes and will no doubt soon have the ability to threaten us all
Flash my answer is contained above it demand that you accept that coastal defence is inadequate for our needs which I sometimes think is beyond the " Whats it got to do with us " brigade.
I wouldn't say what I know to be untrue about opposition to the war, N
Backing the troops once committed is one thing; approving the policies, particularly as their foundation and competence is revealed, is another.
I hold no brief for the United Nations and although you could denounce it better, I would go along with its demise.
Unlike you, I do not regard international law as either non existent or a fake. Sovreignty, interstate and supra national treaties, in political, commercial and private domains are there for all to observe; and the International Courts, while not carrying the clout of an invading army, have authority.
The geo political strategies being pursued by the current US administration are poorly devised and violently inflicted, resulting in damage even to the aims the US might reasonably seek in terms of security of resources and security from more direct, bellicose, external threat.
Sadly the Labour administration grossly under valued and mistrusted the excellence of its own civil servants and their extensive understanding, and the value of their advice. Of course this was across all areas of governance, not just foreign and defence policy.
The US was ill-served by an ally led by a bunch of ignorant, a-historical, fawning, delusional criminals. It should have had a mature, informed, level-headed loyalty offered rationally to a long and tried alliance.
Well I do not agree with most of that and the way you describe the Republican Party leaves you little scope for any sane appreciation of the truly evil regimes of the world like Iraq`s.
On the other hand you are clever thing ..maybe there is something in what you say but I cannot see it.
"Which do you prefer and why, diplomacy or invasion?"
The normal one
"It was not Oil that was behind this it was 9.11 and the spread of theocratic fascism helped at every turn by misguided [neocon righteousness that provided a rallying call to every wannabe suicide bomber and loony-left anti-American].”
I have a good friend. I would not help him kick in the head of someone who looked at him a bit queer. In fact, as good friend, I would try to prevent him doing something so stupid, the bad consequences of which far outweigh the satisfaction derived from the endeavour.
Here is a good piece on appeasement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hk7_adBPxU&NR=1
It didn't work when I tried it Flash, but then lots of things don't.
http://tinyurl.com/35z7u3
Hi, my first use of tiny url. hope it works?
:^0
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